- Dragon Ball Z Forum
- →
- The Lounge
- →
- Deep Discussion
- →
- Trump's anti-refugee ban extends to current green card holders
| We hope you enjoy your visit to this forum. If you are reading this then it means you are currently browsing the forum as a guest, we don’t limit any of the content posted from guests however if you join, you will have the ability to join the discussions! We are always happy to see new faces at this forum and we would like to hear your opinion, so why not register now? It doesn’t take long and you can get posting right away. Click here to Register! If you are having difficulties validating your account please email us at admin@dbzf.co.uk If you're already a member please log in to your account: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Trump's anti-refugee ban extends to current green card holders | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jan 28 2017, 04:40 PM (1,241 Views) | |
| * Mitas | Jan 28 2017, 04:40 PM Post #1 |
It truly was a Shawshank redemption
|
So Trump's order for a 90-day block of entry into the US from citizens of several countries will extend to those who already have green cards and reside in the US. This is crazy. It leaves the people who were out of the country at the time of the order stranded and unable to return to a home they followed all the requisite legal avenues to obtain, while also seemingly trapping others from leaving the country for fear of not being able to return. |
 "Then you've got the chance to do better next time." "Next time?" "Course. Doing better next time. That's what life is." | |
 |
 
|
| EMIYA | Jan 28 2017, 05:25 PM Post #2 |
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
And it's just a sad but unfortunately, unsurprising aspect of why our "President-Elect" is both a dips*** and the massive flaws in the American voting system, specifically the Electoral College. I of course can talk all about how this 'ban" is stupid, in the same way "The Wall" is stupid. but I feel at this point it's obvious. For example, I can point out that Trump's ban on specific countries, don't include countries that have actually had terrorism connected to us on them. He even goes as far as to put a religious prosecution, saying that only refugees of a religious minority...or not Muslim, would be allowed to enter. John Oliver on "Last Week Tonight" brought up this point (Not necessarily's Trump's ban itself) but the idea still sticks to it. I believe it was on the refugee incident in Europe and the issues of the France terrorist attack by Syrian terrorist disguised as refugees. At one point, a clip of Mike Huckabee I believe was given basically saying. "If you got a bag of peanuts, and 10 of them are poisonous, do you want the peanuts?" Which of course Oliver dug into that bulls*** easily in that, this is why risks are taken. There's always going to be risks. In the same way that 30,000 people die in cars each year or that each year, 20 people die from cow related deaths. I don't think he actually brought this up but I will, if you get a bad bad of peanuts, that sucks, are you going to stop ever buying peanuts now? Clearly no. Sometimes terrible things happen, sometimes they are things that we may not be able to control. However, even in the act of the terrorist attack on France, French official still said they were going to let refugees in. They stated that in the end, France was still a country of freedom and this incident wasn't going to change that. That's good, because the actions of a few shouldn't be expressed to the entire population. Edited by EMIYA, Jan 28 2017, 05:25 PM.
|
|
|
|
| + Green | Jan 28 2017, 06:19 PM Post #3 |
Flashy Thing!
|
I'm honestly getting worried with all these executive orders he's been putting out. I have Green card holders in my family and these are people who followed the rules. |
   Don't you ever worry that you're on the Devil's side without even knowing it? - DCI John Luther Black power ranger; I do not belong... B.o.B - Mr. Mister | |
|
|
|
| Political Piper | Jan 28 2017, 06:37 PM Post #4 |
 
|
EMIYA, I actually agree with you on that. That is exactly my argument about gun control. It's true. Nothing is 100% safe and the actions of a few shouldn't impact the entire population. |
|
My Youtube Channel With More Political and Breaking News Videos FOOD FOR THOUGHT: | |
|
|
|
| Daniel | Jan 29 2017, 01:07 AM Post #5 |
I like Pokémon
|
I see no reason why gun control is being brought into this. OT: Through the language used in the executive order and further comments released by US authorities pertaining to the order, Canadian news outlets and other media sources have said that it is reasonable to imply that this travel ban applies to Canadian citizens who possess dual nationality with any of the said countries. Most of the countries listed pass citizenship by blood, meaning that the children of immigrants born in Canada are technically dual citizens. Meaning, that my friends who are studying or working in the US are essentially trapped there and one is even stuck in Canada unable to return to his studies, at least until the US clarifies the Canadian situation. Canadian authorities have reached out but so far no specific response addressing dual nationals of Canada (or dual nationals in general I believe), all we have is this. "An American law enforcement official told The Associated Press there was an exemption for foreigners whose entry is in the U.S. national interest, but it was not immediately clear how that exemption might be applied.". If they were to really bar Canadian citizens (regardless of dual nationality), it would be a real strain on border relations, given how intertwined US-Canadian border ops are. Trump, you're an idiot. |
|
|
|
| + Steve | Jan 29 2017, 01:36 AM Post #6 |
Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.
|
Ok yeah I was leaning on the "Surely he won't be that bad" side of the fence but wow. It seems pretty clear that in general a President has too much power, this kind of s*** shouldn't happen without solid reasoning behind it. You shouldn't have to fear for your safety or your livelihood based on who may or may not become President. He's so ridiculously focused on everything but America being a problem it's really troubling. An Orwellian society seems more likely now than ever. Shut everyone out, monitor all your own citizens and everything will be fine. Hopefully this order gets turned over by congress or whatever but it's utter madness that the POTUS can just write some s*** on a bit of paper and put it in action instantly, especially one so ignorant. "Mike, where are all these terrorists coming from!?" "Uh, most of those countries there with the brown people, just select a few, space as well I think" "Alright no brown people or aliens they're all terrorists...where's my pen?" |
 Definitely not a succubus, fear not | |
|
|
|
| Political Piper | Jan 29 2017, 02:50 AM Post #7 |
|
Daniel, Guns weren't brought into this. I was complimenting his statement because it is a really important one regarding individual liberty that America was founded on. Sorry if you think that that one extra sentence completely changes the context of my post, I can't help you with that. Steve, Congress won't overturn it but it will probably be reversed at the Supreme Court, even with only 8 justices. However, the President does have the right to stop illegal immigration if the consensus is that he is doing it for the good of the people.. So if will be interesting to see how the SCOTUS handles it, if it does indeed go there. I do agree this is not right. His actions on Sanctuary cities is right, but this one isn't |
|
My Youtube Channel With More Political and Breaking News Videos FOOD FOR THOUGHT: | |
|
|
|
| Daniel | Jan 29 2017, 02:50 AM Post #8 |
|
I like Pokémon
|
Eh, executive orders give the President the ability to somewhat direct resources within the boundaries of current law, he can't overrule current law or create new law - he's allowed to work with what's given to him. Hopefully Congress will make some amendments to this order, at the very least allow green card holders to come home for f***s sake.
Edited by Daniel, Jan 29 2017, 02:51 AM.
|
|
|
|
| EMIYA | Jan 29 2017, 03:00 AM Post #9 |
|
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
It's not really the President has too much power, in some cases he has too little. Obama had an incredibly difficult time getting executive orders passed thanks to the predominantly Republican House of Senate.This is the, unsurprising but notable trouble with the system. In Obama's case, you had a Democratic President fighting against a Republican House of Senate. Obama had a huge up hill battle and look now? Even some of his executive orders like the "Affordable Care Act" are attempting to be...if not already, repealed. It's also a huge issue that such Executive Orders can be overturned so easily. Sometimes it might be for the best, but like here, some times it's really kind of stupid. Even if you don't agree with the ACA, it showed potential. 50% of the country was already in support of it was a stepping stone to Universal Healthcare in the USA. Any one with a lick of sense would've taken this and opted to improve it, not just repeal it. But now that Trump has done this...or at least plans to, he has to create an entirely new system to not only match up the ACA but surpass. Otherwise, a hell of a lot more than 50% of the country is going to be a bit miffed. But Trump can do this and it's because of the heavily lack of checks and balances in his current term that he can. Trump is Republican, the House of Senate is majority Republican as is the House of Representatives. This is awful. This allows for a very little sense of checks and balances and when you hold ideologies dated 30-50 years ago and you're surrounded by a group with ideologies dated 30-50 years ago and progress starts skidding to a halt and reversing. This is bad. Without even getting into government, life itself can't move on properly without progress. It's how the world works. So Trump by himself really isn't powerful but when you take him and surround him by this all other stuff that obviously supports him more easily, he of course more easily gets these idiot acts done. Which, while this a bit of topic it goes to show more flaws in our system. Trump won the Electoral College but spectacularly lost the popular vote to Clinton. While "spectacularly" may be up to debate...it was significant. Or in other words, the actual population of citizens in America voted Clinton...and now Trump is President. And at that point, most people's head's explode. |
|
|
|
| Daniel | Jan 29 2017, 04:38 AM Post #10 |
|
I like Pokémon
|
Well some good news for Canadians out there, NSA Flynn confirmed that Canadians, dual citizens included, travelling on Canadian passports are unaffected by the ban. That's a plus. |
|
|
|
| lazerbem | Jan 29 2017, 03:05 PM Post #11 |
 
|
It's hard to say whether Congress would stick with this. On one hand, there's been a disturbing trend for party loyalty over anything else. On the other, he's been pissing off a lot of Republicans with spending plans and what not. Worth noting that there's been a bit of exaggeration. Apparently, it's not a green card ban so much as extra screening when returning to their country. Which is still silly, but it's not a ban. Edited by lazerbem, Jan 29 2017, 03:14 PM.
|
 Crazy cat cults in the woods | |
|
|
| Political Piper | Jan 29 2017, 04:39 PM Post #12 |
|
A big reason Obama had to fight the Republicans was because he basically ignored them from 07-11 since the Dems had control. Remember the "elections have consequences" quote?
It's an important issue. Laws are supposed to be written by congress and signed by the President. That is essential for the checks and balance system to work. In 4 or 8 years if a Democrat gets in, they will also be able to cancel out an order that Trump did that may be against their beliefs. It's imperative that Executive Orders be canceled easily because they really shouldn't be used to begin with. Congress should make the laws.
Again, a big part of Obamacare was him using Executive Orders to repair those areas that failed when it was first instated. Obama understood that this is the dangers of executive orders. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure he thought that when the ACA was eneacted that there wouldn't many bugs to fix. I'm sure he even tried very hard to make sure that didn't happen, but it is essential for checks and balances that EO's can be easily overturned.
This is your personal opinion, with respect to Government. There are millions of others who disagree, as this election showed by the number of conservative elected officials. I think you are also confusing conservatism with stagnation. Just because something is conservative doesn't mean there can't be progress...
Which has happened since the beginning of the US. Most recently from 07-11. It's fun when your party is is control but it's hard when it's the opposing party is. It's not flaws in the system, it is the American people that put those people in power. It has nothing to do with flaws in a system...
Checks and balances; indirect-democracy; republic. California and only California gave Hillary the popular vote. But I do agree that the popular vote should count for more. Here is my take on how to fix the electoral college system that I think you and millions of others would like. Spoiler: click to toggle On a sad note though, I think Trump's visa ban will hold must muster. According to Title 8, Chapter 12, Sub chapter 2 § 1182(f) anyways. Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline. Edited by Political Piper, Jan 29 2017, 04:53 PM.
|
|
My Youtube Channel With More Political and Breaking News Videos FOOD FOR THOUGHT: | |
|
|
|
| EMIYA | Jan 29 2017, 06:31 PM Post #13 |
|
"I am the bone of my sword."
|
That is true, and then in 2014 the Republican Party took full control not only as the majority of both the Senate and the House of Representatives. You can easily bring it to both sides. Obama, for whatever people want to thin of his term, improved this country from what it originally was. The Bush Administration was not good, most people agree to that. It was a rough time and the Obama Administration, perhaps not massively but definitely surely improved things from the past. For example,Employment rates have dropped tremendously since Obama's term, The ACA, for as many people try to claim doesn't work, has effectively dropped the rate of those uninsured to about unprecedented numbers in the last few decades. Even Medicade has been expanded. People who act like the ACA didn't work are...well...numbers say otherwise. But that's also to say that amendments and improvements tot he ACA can't be made. It's not that the ACA did not work at the level some people expected it work. Obama's term has even lead to more progressive views now, where we finally got Gay Marriage legalized. In the end, perhaps thanks to the majority Democratic Party system at the time Obama was in office, he did get more work done and it frankly helped. Now to be fair, we don't know how Trump's term is actually going to go. We may be wrong and he may bring the country into an even better scene. Unfortunately from what we see now, it's not looking that good.
I'd probably more or less agree with you on that. The idea that Executive Orders shouldn't be used is partly true but understandably needed in some regard. The whole idea of Checks and Balances makes sense on paper but may not work directly in the real world, depending on circumstances. As I've said, what's needed is less Republican/Democratic ideologies and more Progressive Party candidates. Progress is what's needed and progress really should be based on a simple idea of logic and not morality. Take the "Death Penalty" for example. I think it should be illegal, not due to moral standing but simply the fact that statistically, it does not work. It doesn't reduce crime, be it violent or otherwise. In a lot of cases it can be inhumane and break the 8th Amendment. We've all heard the stories of botched executions. It's amazing costly and it's entire idea does nothing. The same thing can be said for Guantanamo Bay and the torture of prisoners there. Of course many people do know that Obama was trying to close that down (with the term "close" being perhaps noted as more a long the lines of "move") but he obviously failed on that. But as much people act like torture works in the media, it doesn't work that well in real life. So why do we have something that clearly isn't doing it's job? We should legalized marijuana. Firstly you have a drug whose potency and addiction is so low you'd have a better chance overdosing on tap water. The direct relations of deaths caused by MJ are...low. One may even go as far to say "zero" actually but needless to say, low. It's already being used medically in some states. Some States have even attempted to legalize MJ recreation ally. Weed now is not the dangerous, life threatening drug that something like "Reefer Madness" has tried to show and many people are now understanding that.
That is true, unfortunately the Republican Party is less likely to have Progressive Views than the Democratic Party. Which means that in our current generation, there is a higher chance of getting progressive views implemented under a Democrat than it is a a Republican. Republican candidates and those in office are unfortunately less likely to hold these progressive views.
Yeah, because our party is actually doing something good and improving the United States. Right now Trump is essentially banning US citizens from the country with his bans, pissing off other countries with walls and clearly doesn't seem to have a clue how to run the country. Unfortunately not only is he in power, he's got people around him who agree with him. Obama was more progressive, some have even gone as far as to call him a "Progressive" President. In the end, his term really did help improve the country, especially over what we had before. That's the power and need of being progressive. You brought up "Conservative does not equate to Stagnation." The entire ideology behind "Conservatism" is to hold a more traditional attitude. Traditions are things that are not meant to be changed, otherwise its no longer traditional. So int he end, you'd still lead to the high potential of stagnation. Conservatives don't want change, they don't want to get away from tradition. Which unfortunately leads to us now where we need progress and we need to move away from old traditions and some people refused to do so. |
|
|
|
| Political Piper | Jan 30 2017, 03:30 AM Post #14 |
|
EMIYA, What did you think of my Electoral College solution? |
|
My Youtube Channel With More Political and Breaking News Videos FOOD FOR THOUGHT: | |
|
|
|
| Political Piper | Feb 3 2017, 11:24 PM Post #15 |
|
Man Who Said Mother Died in Iraq After Trump Travel Ban Made it All Up, Imam Says. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-who-said-mother-died-in-iraq-after-trump-travel-ban-made-it-all-up-imam-says/ar-AAmvWoN?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout How many more of these are out there, I wonder? |
|
My Youtube Channel With More Political and Breaking News Videos FOOD FOR THOUGHT: | |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
 |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Deep Discussion · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
 4:59 PM Jul 13
|
Theme Designed by McKee91
Powered by ZetaBoards Premium · Privacy Policy